ROBERT: Smaller than an eyelash. ROBERT: But after five days, she found that 80% of the time, the plants went -- or maybe chose -- to head toward the dry pipe that has water in it. She says one of the weirdest parts of this though, is when sick trees give up their food, the food doesn't usually go to their kids or even to trees of the same species. What happened to you didn't happen to us. ROBERT: I don't think Monica knows the answer to that, but she does believe that, you know, that we humans MONICA GAGLIANO: We are a little obsessed with the brain. And what we found was that the trees that were the biggest and the oldest were the most highly connected. Did Jigs emerge? ROBERT: Then of course because it's the BBC, they take a picture of it. JAD: We've all seen houseplants do that, right? Like, I say, it's early in the season. It would be all random. And her family included a dog named Jigs. I thought okay, so this is just stupid. ROBERT: And I met a plant biologist who's gonna lead that parade. Transcript. And she says this time they relaxed almost immediately. ROBERT: They remembered what had happened three days before, that dropping didn't hurt, that they didn't have to fold up. And when they go in SUZANNE SIMARD: There is Jigs at the bottom of the outhouse, probably six feet down at the bottom of the outhouse pit. ROBERT: Could a plant learn to associate something totally random like a bell with something it wanted, like food? JENNIFER FRAZER: It is! I purposely removed the chance for a moisture gradient. ROBERT: And they're digging and digging and digging. So I don't have a problem. And we can move it up, and we can drop it. ROBERT: Connecting your house to the main city water line that's in the middle of the street. ROBERT: I have even -- I can go better than even that. And the tree happens to be a weeping willow. This is not so good" signal through the network. Or even learn? A plant that is quite far away from the actual pipe. They may have this intelligence, maybe we're just not smart enough yet to figure it out. ROBERT: Picture one of those parachute drops that they have at the -- at state fairs or amusement parks where you're hoisted up to the top. Yes, because she knew that scientists had proposed years before, that maybe there's an underground economy that exists among trees that we can't see. She's working in the timber industry at the time. MONICA GAGLIANO: Again, if you imagine that the pot, my experimental pot. So let's go to the first. We are the principals of Accurate Building Inspectors of Brooklyn, New York. Like the bell for the dog. But once again I kind of wondered if -- since the plant doesn't have a brain or even neurons to connect the idea of light and wind or whatever, where would they put that information? Now the plants if they were truly dumb they'd go 50/50. Why waste hot water? And for the meat substitute, she gave each plant little bit of food. ROBERT: Yes, because she knew that scientists had proposed years before, that maybe there's an underground economy that exists among trees that we can't see. So you can get -- anybody can get one of these plants, and we did. MONICA GAGLIANO: Would the plant do the same? But we are in the home inspection business. And so I don't have a problem with that. Verified account Protected Tweets @ Protected Tweets @ ROBERT: It turns that carbon into sugar, which it uses to make its trunk and its branches, anything thick you see on a tree is just basically air made into stuff. That's the place where I can remember things. But the drop was just shocking and sudden enough for the little plant to Do its reflex defense thing. Fan, light, lean. ROBERT: Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. Then we actually had to run four months of trials to make sure that, you know, that what we were seeing was not one pea doing it or two peas, but it was actually a majority. Turns the fan on, turns the light on, and the plant turns and leans that way. No boink anymore. You know, it goes back to anthropomorphizing plant behaviors. But it was originally done with -- with a dog. It's a family business. JENNIFER FRAZER: Finally, one time he did not bring the meat, but he rang the bell. It's almost as if these plants -- it's almost as if they know where our pipes are. What happened to you didn't happen to us. The plants have to keep pulling their leaves up and they just get tired. So she decided to conduct her experiment. No question there. JENNIFER FRAZER: So Pavlov started by getting some dogs and some meat and a bell. Okay. In the little springtail bodies there were little tubes growing inside them. Couldn't it just be an entirely different interpretation here? ROBERT: They would salivate and then eat the meat. LARRY UBELL: Yeah, and I have done inspections where roots were coming up through the pipe into the house. And again. It's just getting started. So for three days, three times a day, she would shine these little blue lights on the plants. They designed from scratch a towering parachute drop in blue translucent Lego pieces. And therefore she might, in the end, see something that no one else would see. Fan first, light after. Back and forth. You have to understand that the cold water pipe causes even a small amount of water to condense on the pipe itself. However, if that's all they had was carbon ROBERT: That's Roy again. Of Accurate Building Inspectors. This way there is often more questions than answers, but that's part of the fun as well. ROBERT: And it's in that little space between them that they make the exchange. [ANSWERING MACHINE: To play the message, press two. So, okay. I guess you could call it a mimosa plant drop box. But what I do know is that the fact that the plant doesn't have a brain doesn't -- doesn't a priori say that the plants can't do something. And the tree gets the message, and it sends a message back and says, "Yeah, I can do that.". And the plant still went to the place where the pipe was not even in the dirt? And so of course, that was only the beginning. Wait a second. They were actually JENNIFER FRAZER: Tubes. Radiolab will continue in a moment. Sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh. And the plant still went to the place where the pipe was not even in the dirt? ROBERT: But what -- how would a plant hear something? Let me just back up for a second so that you can -- to set the scene for you. He was a -- what was he? There's -- on the science side, there's a real suspicion of anything that's anthropomorphizing a plant. Picasso! This is very like if you had a little helmet with a light on it. I spoke to her with our producer Latif Nasser, and she told us that this -- this network has developed a kind of -- a nice, punny sort of name. Like, from the trees perspective, how much of their sugar are they giving to the fungus? And after not a whole lot of drops, the plant, she noticed, stopped closing its leaves. That's a parade I'll show up for. It's a family business. This is Roy Halling, researcher specializing in fungi at the New York Botanical Garden. So I don't have a problem. And then Monica would Just about, you know, seven or eight inches. And she says this time they relaxed almost immediately. LATIF: Wait. She made sure that the dirt didn't get wet, because she'd actually fastened the water pipe to the outside of the pot. Very similar to the sorts of vitamins and minerals that humans need. I've been looking around lately, and I know that intelligence is not unique to humans. He's looking up at us quite scared and very unhappy that he was covered in And toilet paper. Today, Robert drags Jad along ona parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. They remembered what had happened three days before, that dropping didn't hurt, that they didn't have to fold up. SUZANNE SIMARD: This is getting so interesting, but I have ROBERT: Unfortunately, right at that point Suzanne basically ran off to another meeting. JAD: And to Annie McEwen and Brenna Farrow who both produced this piece. ROBERT: That there was a kind of a moral objection to thinking this way. SUZANNE SIMARD: And so I designed this experiment to figure that out. LINCOLN TAIZ: Yes. From Tree to Shining Tree. Yes. Does it threaten your sense of humanity that you depend for pretty much every single calorie you eat on a plant? Just for example JENNIFER FRAZER: Let's say it's -- times are good. The problem is is with plants. ROBERT: Then she placed the fan right next to the light so that MONICA GAGLIANO: The light and the fan were always coming from the same direction. And again. If there was only the fan, would the plant After three days of this training regime, it is now time to test the plants with just the fan, no light. "I'm in the neighborhood. I'm just trying to make sure I understand, because I realize that none of these conversations are actually spoken. To remember? I'm 84. I mean, I -- it's a kind of Romanticism, I think. But let me just -- let me give it a try. An expert. Gone. ROBERT: And her family included a dog named Jigs. MONICA GAGLIANO: Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. It's soaks in sunshine, and it takes CO2, carbon dioxide, and it's splits it in half. This is the plant and pipe mystery. ROBERT: What happened to you didn't happen to us. I mean, you're out there in the forest and you see all these trees, and you think they're individuals just like animals, right? SUZANNE SIMARD: Yeah, he was a curious dog. ROBERT: She found that the one stimulus that would be perfect was MONICA GAGLIANO: A little fan. I mean again, it's a tree. JAD: You're doing the -- like, okay first it was the roots under the ground all connected into a whole hive thing. If she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. Wait a second. ROBERT: Two very different options for our plant. Is it ROBERT: This is like metaphor is letting in the light as opposed to shutting down the blinds. And then I would cover them in plastic bags. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like a defensive mechanism. No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. So you're like a metaphor cop with a melty heart. ], [ROY HALLING: Jamie York is our Senior Producer. He's holding his hand maybe a foot off the ground. It's gone. You have to understand that the cold water pipe causes even a small amount of water to condense on the pipe itself. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Our fact-checkers are Eva Dasher and Michelle Harris. Well, I have one thing just out of curiosity ROBERT: As we were winding up with our home inspectors, Alvin and Larry Ubell, we thought maybe we should run this metaphor idea by them. Ring, meat, eat. Let him talk. In 1997, a couple of scientists wrote a paper which describes how fungi Jennifer says that what the tubes do is they worm their way back and forth through the soil until they bump into some pebbles. And then she waited a few more days and came back. So maybe the root hairs, which are always found right at the growing tips of plant roots, maybe plant roots are like little ears. ROBERT: I think if I move on to the next experiment from Monica, you're going to find it a little bit harder to object to it. ROBERT: But that scientist I mentioned MONICA GAGLIANO: My name is Monica Gagliano. This is Ashley Harding from St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada. On the fifth day, they take a look and discover most of the roots, a majority of the roots were heading toward the sound of water. This is the headphones? JAD: What -- I forgot to ask you something important. In this case, a little blue LED light. So maybe could you just describe it just briefly just what you did? People speculated about this, but no one had actually proved it in nature in the woods until Suzanne shows up. You got the plant to associate the fan with food. Oh, hunting for water. ROBERT: The Ubells see this happening all the time. JAD: The plants have to keep pulling their leaves up and they just get tired. Or SUZANNE SIMARD: No. And it was almost like, let's see how much I have to stretch it here before you forget. My name is Monica Gagliano. This is Ashley Harding from St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada. There is Jigs at the bottom of the outhouse, probably six feet down at the bottom of the outhouse pit. Maybe each root is -- is like a little ear for the plant. Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. What the team found is the food ends up very often with trees that are new in the forest and better at surviving global warming. ROBERT: We, as you know, built your elevator. ROBERT: And right in the middle of the yard is a tree. So otherwise they can't photosynthesize. MONICA GAGLIANO: So then at one point, when you only play the bell for the dog, or you, you know, play the fan for the plant, we know now for the dogs, the dogs is expecting. You give me -- like, I want wind, birds, chipmunks JAD: Like, I'm not, like, your sound puppet here. SUZANNE SIMARD: And we were able to map the network. I can scream my head off if I want to. Can you -- will you soften your roots so that I can invade your root system?" I can scream my head off if I want to. Yeah. Thud. And she wondered whether that was true. So this is our plant dropper. JENNIFER FRAZER: With when they actually saw and smelled and ate meat. JAD: No, I actually, like even this morning it's already like poof! Couldn't it just be an entirely different interpretation here? Now, can you -- can you imagine what we did wrong? ROBERT: Actually, Monica's dog leads perfectly into her third experiment, which again will be with a plant. Well, when I was a kid, my family spent every summer in the forest. Of the tree's sugar goes down to the mushroom team? So after the first few, the plants already realized that that was not necessary. ROY HALLING: Well, you can see the white stuff is the fungus. JENNIFER FRAZER: And he would repeat this. I mean, I think there's something to that. So they might remember even for a much longer time than 28 days. They're not experiencing extra changes, for example. 28. Birds, please. We were so inconsistent, so clumsy, that the plants were smart to keep playing it safe and closing themselves up. Also thanks to Christy Melville and to Emerald O'Brien and to Andres O'Hara and to Summer Rayne. And on this particular day, she's with the whole family. JENNFER FRAZER: Well, they do it because the tree has something the fungus needs, and the fungus has something the tree needs. ROBERT: What happened to you didn't happen to us. However, if that's all they had was carbon That's Roy again. How does it know which way to turn and grow its roots so that it can find the water? But then, scientists did an experiment where they gave some springtails some fungus to eat. It's as if the individual trees were somehow thinking ahead to the needs of the whole forest. SUZANNE SIMARD: It'll go, "Ick. And the pea plant leans toward them. Yeah, mimosa has been one of the pet plants, I guess, for many scientists for, like, centuries. What is it? You should definitely go out and check out her blog, The Artful Amoeba, especially to the posts, the forlorn ones about plants. ROBERT: And while it took us a while to see it, apparently these little threads in the soil. And to me, here are three more reasons that you can say, "No, really! Sugar. If a nosy deer happens to bump into it, the mimosa plant Curls all its leaves up against its stem. ROBERT: She's a forestry professor at the University of British Columbia. That's what she says. I go out and I thought there's no one here on Sunday afternoon. And so on. Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. JENNIFER FRAZER: These little soil particles. Maybe not with the helmet, but yeah. Here's the water.". She actually trained this story in a rather elaborate experimental setup to move away from the light and toward a light breeze against all of its instincts. Would you say that the plant is seeing the sun? When they did this, they saw that a lot of the springtails that had the tubes inside them were still alive. So it's not that it couldn't fold up, it's just that during the dropping, it learned that it didn't need to. As soon as we labeled them, we used the Geiger counter to -- and ran it up and down the trees, and we could tell that they were hot, they were boo boo boo boo boo, right? ROBERT: I think that's fair. The plants have to keep pulling their leaves up and they just get tired. Jennifer told Latif and I about another role that these fungi play. So the -- this branching pot thing. Like the bell for the dog. I am the blogger of The Artful Amoeba at Scientific American. This is by the way, what her entire family had done, her dad and her grandparents. I'm gonna just go there. It was summertime. I think if I move on to the next experiment from Monica, you're going to find it a little bit harder to object to it. SUZANNE SIMARD: And those chemicals will then move through the network and warn neighboring trees or seedlings. ROBERT: Now the plants if they were truly dumb, they'd go 50/50. Eventually over a period of time, it'll crack the pipe like a nutcracker. JENNIFER FRAZER: The fungus has this incredible network of tubes that it's able to send out through the soil, and draw up water and mineral nutrients that the tree needs. And when you look at the map, what you see are circles sprouting lines and then connecting to other circles also sprouting lines. They run out of energy. JAD: It's like every time I close my eyes, you're coming at it from a different direction. Radiolab: Smarty Plants. We were so inconsistent, so clumsy, that the plants were smart to keep playing it safe and closing themselves up. Support Radiolab today at Radiolab.org/donate. JENNIFER FRAZER: As soon as it senses that a grazing animal is nearby ROBERT: If a nosy deer happens to bump into it, the mimosa plant ROBERT: Curls all its leaves up against its stem. Jad and Robert, theyare split on this one. But now we know, after having looked at their DNA, that fungi are actually very closely related to animals. It's not leaking. And we were able to map the network. Maybe each root is -- is like a little ear for the plant. ALVIN UBELL: The tree will wrap its roots around that pipe. ANNIE MCEWEN: What was your reaction when you saw this happen? Five, four, three, two, one, drop! And then they did experiments with the same fungus that I'm telling you about that was capturing the springtails, and they hooked it up to a tree. ROBERT: It won't be a metaphor in just a moment. Fan, light, lean. ROBERT: Science writer Jen Frazer gave us kind of the standard story. And then Monica would Just about, you know, seven or eight inches. But it didn't happen. And it can reach these little packets of minerals and mine them. It's time -- time for us to go and lie down on the soft forest floor. On our knees with our noses in the ground, and we can't see anything. So let's go to the first. So today we have a triptych of experiments about plants. JAD: So she's saying they remembered for almost a month? The magnolia tree outside of our house got into the sewer pipes, reached its tentacles into our house and busted the sewage pipe. With when they actually saw and smelled and ate meat. April 8, 2018 By thelandconnection. And what she discovered is that all these trees, all these trees that were of totally different species were sharing their food underground. Couple minutes go by And all of a sudden we could hear this barking and yelping. How much longer? But we are in the home inspection business. 36:59. That was my reaction. Well, it depends on who you ask. ROBERT: Ring, meat, eat. And you don't see it anywhere. ROBERT: So if a beetle were to invade the forest, the trees tell the next tree over, "Here come the --" like Paul Revere, sort of? ROBERT: So we figured look, if it's this easy and this matter of fact, we should be able to do this ourselves and see it for ourselves. MONICA GAGLIANO: The idea was to drop them again just to see, like, the difference between the first time you learn something and the next time. Fan, light, lean. And it was almost like, let's see how much I have to stretch it here before you forget. JAD: From just bears throwing fish on the ground? 2016. Like, they don't have ears or a brain or anything like, they couldn't hear like we hear. ROBERT: Yeah. And I mean, like, really loved the outdoors. But that day with the roots is the day that she began thinking about the forest that exists underneath the forest. ROBERT: Peering down at the plants under the red glow of her headlamp. Except in this case instead of a chair, they've got a little plant-sized box. Different kind of signal traveling through the soil? let's do it! Into which she put these sensitive plants. It's a -- it's a three-pronged answer. I don't know why you have problems with this. And moved around, but always matched in the same way together. I mean, it's a kind of romanticism, I think. So we're really -- like this is -- we're really at the very beginning of this. They designed from scratch a towering parachute drop in blue translucent Lego pieces. And we can move it up, and we can drop it. And moved around, but always matched in the same way together. So you can -- you can see this is like a game of telephone. ROBERT: And not too far away from this tree, underground, there is a water pipe. Yeah. Oh! But the Ubells have noticed that even if a tree is 10 or 20, 30 yards away from the water pipe, for some reason the tree roots creep with uncanny regularity straight toward the water pipe. ROBERT: Isn't that what you do? This feels one of those experiments where you just abort it on humanitarian grounds, you know? ALVIN UBELL: In a tangling of spaghetti-like, almost a -- and each one of those lines of spaghetti is squeezing a little bit. SUZANNE SIMARD: Douglas fir, birch and cedar. So what do we have in our ears that we use to hear sound? ]. And the tubes branch and sometimes they reconnect. But after five days, she found that 80% of the time, the plants went -- or maybe chose -- to head toward the dry pipe that has water in it. It was like -- it was like a huge network. Like, as in the fish. There are multiple ways of doing one thing, right? Coming up on the Plant Parade, we get to the heart -- or better yet, the root -- of a very specific type of plant. Radiolab - Smarty Plants . ROBERT: So you think that that this -- you think this is a hubris corrector? JAD: That is cool. ALVIN UBELL: How much longer? If you have this kind of license, then you are only allowed to grow up to that certain height; if . Wait. LARRY UBELL: It's not leaking. Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising scientists at Princeton University, we dig into the work of evolutionary ecologist Monica Gagliano, who turns our brain-centered worldview on its head through a series of clever experiments that show plants doing things we never would've imagined. She went into the forest, got some trees. I don't know yet. Monica says what she does do is move around the world with a general feeling of What if? There was some kind of benefit from the birch to the fur. Ground, and it can reach these little threads in the middle of the whole family relaxed immediately! The whole family: no, really in and toilet paper started by some. She 's a -- it was originally done with -- with a general feeling of what?! They did this, they do n't have ears or a brain or anything like, from the birch the! Forestry professor at the University of British Columbia maybe a foot off the ground, and it was done. 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radiolab smarty plants